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Limit rail usage. 
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Eporhtnasim

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:14 am
Posts: 24
Post Limit rail usage.
Is this an improvement to an already-existing feature, or a new feature entirely?
Improvement.

If an improvement, what original feature is it improving upon?
"Rail" weapons, specifically the Gauss rifle and laser rifles to some extent I think.

How would this work?
Further limitation of ammo on these weapons for balance purposes.

Can you give an example in how useful this feature would be?
In reality, magnetic weapons such as railguns require an immense amount of energy. In doom, of course this concept of realism is irrelevant and unimportant, however that's not my primary point.

These weapons are spammed horrendously on the public servers, and if I could guess, probably a favorite of acrobatic 3 mile snipers at night. Sometimes I can't manage to move across my own base without trying several times, because there is a gauss sniper somewhere far outside the main gate.

The sniper rifle works like it is supposed to, it fires slow and is accurate at range. The gauss rifle in its entirety pretty much seems to make the sniper rifle obsolete, sniper might as well be a free class, as is, it is definitely not worth $750, but that's another matter. I tried to play the test version tonight where keybinds and the zoom feature are removed, its impossible to play in certain circumstances. Where before I could make a futile attempt at firing back, now I can't even alert the team to where the sniper is, the railgun dispatches me before I can turn around and locate where its coming from sometimes, not sure how that's accomplished without zoom. It's just my opinion and I'm not completely sure what the AOW team intends with this gun, but being cheaper than the sniper rifle it only seems rational that its less effective.

So, I would propose reducing the amount of ammo on gauss and laser rifles to a small enough amount that the potential gauss sniper has to move often to locate ammo, possibly reducing the damage of the gauss rifle. A weapon like that has a large enough power requirement so it seems realistically feasible. Even with 5 ammo, it seems most people that use the gun will still get at least 2 kills out of that and probably waste a shot. The laser rifles aren't really meant to be a primary weapon or a fighting weapon at all, and the gauss rifle is insanely overpowered for anyone using a third party program.

It would also promote close range slugfests I think, which is more entertaining than getting magically sniped. I don't mean to rant on about cheaters, I've tried using the weapon like this and I don't understand how someone can consistently make these shots.


Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:16 am
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Dat Minigun

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 35
Post Re: Limit rail usage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

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Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:42 am
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: British Columbia
Post Re: Limit rail usage.
Okay, I'm going to go through this post and answer everything I can honestly.

Reyalp wrote:
These weapons [gauss rifles] are spammed horrendously on the public servers, and if I could guess, probably a favorite of acrobatic 3 mile snipers at night. Sometimes I can't manage to move across my own base without trying several times, because there is a gauss sniper somewhere far outside the main gate.


That is a cause of the current build (r1826) not disabling FOV. Thus, aiming with any precision weapon becomes extremely easy with even the simplest of binds. As for the current situation, gauss is hard to use in anything past medium range without:
1. A high resolution
2. Very good precision aiming skills, like those gained from playing Quake 3 instagib
3. Most likely standing still
4. A tiny crosshair that wont obscure those few pixels that represent you on their screen.

Reyalp wrote:
The sniper rifle works like it is supposed to, it fires slow and is accurate at range. The gauss rifle in its entirety pretty much seems to make the sniper rifle obsolete, sniper might as well be a free class, as is, it is definitely not worth $750, but that's another matter.

Gauss has no zoom, though. There goes half of its sniping potential.

Reyalp wrote:
I tried to play the test version tonight where keybinds and the zoom feature are removed, its impossible to play in certain circumstances. Where before I could make a futile attempt at firing back, now I can't even alert the team to where the sniper is

That's generally a sniper's job, to be an assassin. But, you can still know where he is shooting from and where he runs off to since your camera centers on him when you die. Then you can alert the team/go stealth and root him out.

Reyalp wrote:
the railgun dispatches me before I can turn around and locate where its coming from sometimes, not sure how that's accomplished without zoom. It's just my opinion and I'm not completely sure what the AOW team intends with this gun, but being cheaper than the sniper rifle it only seems rational that its less effective.

It is, for most part. It shows where you're shooting from, has no zoom at all, and does less damage. However, this is the balance that Volt left for us, so say what you will. A sniper can easily outgun a gaussman at long range, and a gaussman kills a sniper in medium range. Class dynamics, bro. Only difference is, sniper is antipersonnel, not anti-armor.

Reyalp wrote:
So, I would propose reducing the amount of ammo on gauss and laser rifles to a small enough amount that the potential gauss sniper has to move often to locate ammo, possibly reducing the damage of the gauss rifle. A weapon like that has a large enough power requirement so it seems realistically feasible.

I can agree to the fact that gauss primary fire can be weakened, but only a bit in my opinion before it becomes another generic unfun "me-too" weapon. Maybe 45-55 damage instead of 60 but this really rides on armor resistances too.

Reyalp wrote:
Even with 5 ammo, it seems most people that use the gun will still get at least 2 kills out of that and probably waste a shot. The laser rifles aren't really meant to be a primary weapon or a fighting weapon at all, and the gauss rifle is insanely overpowered for anyone using a third party program.

Unauthorized third party programs should not be used to judge the balance of a weapon. Also, without FOV, people actually tend to miss more often than not with the gauss rifle unless you're moving very predictably. Happens to me.

Reyalp wrote:
It would also promote close range slugfests I think, which is more entertaining than getting magically sniped. I don't mean to rant on about cheaters, I've tried using the weapon like this and I don't understand how someone can consistently make these shots.

Like I said, many players have very good aim gained from playing Instagib and games like Counterstrike where instant pinpoint aim is key. Some players do use cheats but some can also twitch shot in close range with those guns. I do rather often, even with a sniper rifle. Blame Quake Live instagib.


Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:59 am
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:34 pm
Posts: 1228
Location: Finland
Post Re: Limit rail usage.
Rejected.


Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:50 am
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Eporhtnasim

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:14 am
Posts: 24
Post Re: Limit rail usage.
Okay, it was just my thoughts on it. Your right cheating should not be used to determine balance, I figured maybe it was relevant due to the amount of it going on.

Thanks for your thoughtful response though.


Last edited by Reyalp on Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:21 pm
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Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:04 pm
Posts: 645
Location: Serbia
Post Re: Limit rail usage.
Reyalp wrote:
Your right cheating should be used to determine balance

Medic wrote:
Reyalp wrote:
Even with 5 ammo, it seems most people that use the gun will still get at least 2 kills out of that and probably waste a shot. The laser rifles aren't really meant to be a primary weapon or a fighting weapon at all, and the gauss rifle is insanely overpowered for anyone using a third party program.

Unauthorized third party programs should not be used to judge the balance of a weapon.

LOL?


Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:39 am
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:34 pm
Posts: 1228
Location: Finland
Post Re: Limit rail usage.
I think he typoed it.


Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:31 pm
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Eporhtnasim

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:14 am
Posts: 24
Post Re: Limit rail usage.
Yea sorry, a typo. I'm quasi-dyslexic.


Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:45 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: British Columbia
Post Re: Limit rail usage.
No worries. :)


Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:58 pm
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