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[No] Removal of the lives system 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:11 pm
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Post [No] Removal of the lives system
I suggest to remove the lives system out of sudden death mode. I explain you why:

Today was again a match and I tell you the story:

We were on Red and blue team lost all buildings. Only War Factory was left. It was now sudden death mode and the blue war factory was of course now extremely well defended with its only building left and sudden death in action. So it was because of the lives better to stay defensive. That was very quick sure.

But what does my freaking team? They stay offensive. Like they wanted to copy the french revolution. They died and died. I told them so often stay defensive. But hopeless.
As we had only less lives left it went even more crazy. Some people got the ridiculous idea to really copy the french revolution and chosed the suicide bomber class. (we were below 10 lives) wow great choice!!

That was so damn annoying.

Of course this was a fail by my team members, BUT:

The work before was excellent and it cant be that the enemy wins with one only building left, while we had all. And we still had all buildings till end of game.

its just unfair.

And my reasons to remove the lives system are the following:

a) fairness
b) it would stop such annoying stories like above
c) the buildings arent repairable anyway. So the match will definitely end anyway.
d) Lots of matches were very close. It was very often pity that the lives system killed the match earlier. So many matches it would've been so great exciting to see which team lastly will win with destroying that last building.


Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:48 am
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Post Re: Removal of the lives system
I appreciate the lives-system because,

I don't want to play four hour games

You can choose to either go for lives or for buildings, enabling more variety.

Lives system enables risk into the game play. If dying doesn't cost you can do any crazy move witout risking anything.

Actually I think I would choose always having the lives counter (like a few hundred) and always irrepairable buildings, even outside sudden death, in front of no lives.

That being said I think it's the absoluely hardest and most frustrating to turn a team that thinks it is winning. Since you have no means to do so if they won't even answer to chat. Maybe as a good player you need to help strategically in not turning the games into this. For example by more evenly damage buildings, and not destroying all but one. Of course the reward system kinda counters that behaviour.

Suicide bomber at the end you can choose when it is absolutely clear you will lose anyway, if not for that lucky hit. Or for some Lolz.


Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:16 am
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Post Re: Removal of the lives system
No match would ever last 4 hours.

It would be a little bit longer. Let it be 15 min. But it never wont last several hours to destroy buildings which cant be repaired anymore. Especially on maps with mechs.
Of course - with the lives system it may you think like this. But without lives you can stay offensive and then the match never will last 4 more hours.

To the rest:

I cant more do than to say to them to stay defensive.

I did lot of damage and killed some buildings too. I helped a lot to get it this far. But the war factory was too much defended. And because of the lives system we shouldnt attack them. But they did with even suicide bombers.

In my opinion the lives system destroys the target of the game: Destroying their base. The Lives system even more does convert the game into a last man standing TDM.

update: .. and the disaster of above told story happens again and again :(


Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:46 am
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Post Re: Removal of the lives system
I hate likewise when the team with fewer buildings is winning on tickets, cuz the care take of the last standing toilet is excessive (and rather easier) and they play rather in the camping way, luring the attackers.

Two Strategies:
A: "Wreck the toilets" is contradicting "Stay Alive / Slaughter" in the SD cuz attempts to wreck the toilet will sacrifice the lives, but only in that way. Instead of being rewarding to the aggressive team it's detrimental to them most of the time. The Heck.

In contrast, the other way B: "Stay Alive / Slaughter" isn't contradicting "Wreck the toilets" and can be carried out in the common campy strategies. Pretty annoying.

The best strategy is: A: Wreck the toilets at the brief start of the SD then B: become campy and conservative to avoid lives loss.

But yet r287 is more favorable cuz buildings hp are lowered elevating the success of the main strategy A (no matter is it SD or not). So I am against the removal since in the r287 there's remedy for this.

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Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:56 pm
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Post Re: Removal of the lives system
Then the lives system is even more senseless, because the match will end even earlier on SD if the healths of the buildings are lowered.

The lives system is unnecessary in my opinion.

I want to see who win the goal of the game and not who is the best survival last man standing player :?


Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:44 am
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
+1

I'll continue to endorse this no matter the current status


Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:20 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
Kind of the same here, but only if there is like a 15-30 minute hard timeout. Mainly using the 'timelimit' SCCMD.
That would at least encourage players to try and win within that time period.


Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:28 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
What is exactly now the cause why you denied it? I didnt got it. sorry.

But bad that its the case, its so shitty everytime because of the lives :(


Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:33 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
Removing it is something I don't see happening. It's meant to speed up SD so that it doesn't last half of the day.
I think that you can already toggle it off, if not I think a CVar should be added for it.

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Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:06 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
Why you all think the matches would last so much longer when lives are removed?

The players could go into full offensive to the buildings and if you dont have to watch at lives you could destroy also a last building in a not long period of time. Especially when you say the new build has lower building healths it shouldnt last long.


Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:21 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
Agreed with all this. Without lives, people would actually not be afraid to attack the BUILDINGS. Thus, game ENDING.

Compounded with 4x damage and non-repairability (and the 10-20% less building HP in the first place), and I'd say it really is faster than "try to blow up a building, deal 25% and lose a bunch of tickets, retreat and lure to make them lose tickets, attack again..."

That's not even accounting for how most teams just plain turtle in the base once they fall behind in tickets, which drags it out even more. The current system as it is punishes the aggressive and awards the turtlers. The only way the aggressors can win by base knockout is to blow up all their buildings before their casualties raise too high, which is safe to say, rare. They usually fall back after a failed attack to preserve tickets, and shit just gets dragged on.

I'm stunned by how you could think every game ending in tickets due to camping to PROTECT said tickets and ignoring the buildings is okay.


Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:22 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
thank you medicris.

I thought already I'm the only one person on earth in this forum who doesnt like the lives system. :( (except for some persons ingame though)

And the above told story by me with the last building enemy wins come again and again and its just totally wrong that the enemy wins the game with only one building left, while other team has all buildings. It just shouldnt be that the game is won by that team. The goal of the game is to destroy their base and not to survive longest possible and sudden death just shouldnt change the goal of the game. That leads the game into the wrong direction and the team which actually did much better reach the goal of the game loses the game. Thats just wrong. doesnt matter if the team dies often. The goal of the game was reached far better and the other team almost lost the game and so they shouldnt win it because of doing something else instead of the goal of the game.


Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:13 am
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
I'm changing my mind a bit here.

I say yes and no. Mostly because I'm for making lives toggleable.

For the yes part, people do attempt to try stupid things or are just trolling.

HOWEVER, my no side is because it's really more dependent of how smart your team is, and it speeds up SD a bunch.

I didn't think completely removing a feature because of specific people doing certain things in-game is a good enough reason.
Though after what Medi said about the attackers loosing, I'm leaning more towards the yes side.
It's ridiculous and stupid how people guarding ONE building against the other team wins.

De-M-oN wrote:
The goal of the game is to destroy their base and not to survive longest possible and sudden death just shouldnt change the goal of the game.


I agree completely.

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Last edited by Cyberkill on Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:56 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
Good enough reason should be that the lives system changes the goal of the game.

And if you have to stay at defensive and the people would actually do it, then the lives system could even last longer than without lives.

Without lives you can how said go into full offensive and the buildings wont last long.

I dont think that the lives system shortens the game. I actually think it may even make the game longer, because of the enforcement to stay defensive.

Quote:
It's ridiculous and stupid how people guarding ONE building against the other team wins.

you got it.


Last edited by De-M-oN on Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:03 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
Edited my post, re-read please :).

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:04 pm
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Post Re: [No] Removal of the lives system
Sorry for the long post, but I am not very good at expressing my opinion in a few sentences without giving off any examples. So bear with me for a while if you can.


Well, since this got No'd, I can only suggest that if you want to avoid the situation you described in the first post, you might want to attack the remaining building from outside, from far away with a long range explosive weapon (like bazooka and artillery cannon). That will lure out the campers from inside the base. This "strategy" depends on map layout, though. In some maps you can see the buildings from far away, thus shoot at them, and in some you just can't unless you get very close.

As unfair as the lives system may seem, it still is a good addition to give hope to a team who lost a building or two. Some buildings are very crucial for the survival of a team, and if one of them is gone, the defeat could be easily anticipated. If it wasn't for the lives system, there would be no point in further playing after you've lost important buildings since you're sure to lose.

I'm not saying the lives system is the proper way to fix that problem. In fact, I think it's a very cheap way to fix it. I like the idea of each building providing unique function (mechs are provided ONLY by war factory, for example). But when I think about it, all those buildings are packed near each other, and their layout is actually very similar, so there's nothing about them that would make them worth an entire part of the team (I have trouble expressing my thoughts with words here, but what I meant is that there's nothing special about war factory to make all mechs depend on it, since it's the same as other buildings, and infiltrating it is the same).

My point is that buldings shouldn't have centralized power over purchasable things (killing the war factory shouldn't disable ALL mechs, killing barracks shouldn't disable most of the classes), but instead a more equally distributed power over said things (killing one building would disable one mech and 3 classes, for example, so killing the war factory wouldn't disable all mechs, but just one).

I do love the fact that when my team destroys the enemy team's war factory, we know that they're never going to be able to use mechs again in that match. But if my team swarms the enemy team with mechs after that, the enemy team is sure to lose, one building by one, and it wouldn't make much sense for them to play if they know they're going to lose the game after losing just one building.


Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:00 am
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