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[Added] Alternate Gametype - "Total War" mode 
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Post [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Total War" mode
"Total war is a war in which a belligerent nation engages in the complete mobilization of all fully available resources and population."

We all know AOW can be an hour-long borefest. We all know that more often than not, the game can be pretty uneventful, the most notable thing being some TDM and fragwhoring, and some feeble attempts to attack the enemy base that get instantly repaired. The game's most entertaining aspect is the combat, like an FPS game should be. At least, until Sudden Death, where games really kick into overdrive, buildings start blowing up, the players turn vicious and are generally the most fun parts of the average AOW game.

Well, what if we made a gametype that captured the excitement and fun of SD?

Enter AOW Type 2: work in progress name "Total War". Here's how it works.

"AoW Type 2" Match Flow

  • 1. Game begins. A large timer in the corner of the screen counts down the match's remaining time.
  • 2. Players fight to brutally annihilate their enemies, gaining points in various ways.
  • 3a. One team is clearly superior and takes out every building in the enemy base and wins.
  • 4. Sudden Death is activated after ~30 minutes. "Tickets" are not involved.
  • 4a. Sudden Death breaks the ice and the better team wins by base destruction.
  • 5. If a team does not win within ~15 minutes of SD, the team with the most points wins by decision.
    Total maximum game time: 45~ minutes depending on server settings.

Gaining Points

  • Killing The Enemy:
    While not an efficient way of gaining points, if a team is brutally superior to the other it can be a possible way to tip the balance.

    - Standard infantry = 1 point.
    - Mechs* = 3 to 7 tickets.
    > Orca = 4
    > Raven = 3
    > Wolverine = 4
    > Madcat = 5
    > Titan = 6
    > Guardian = 7

    *Note: Mechs would have greatly reduced HP but better mobility. Mechs would still be ejectable, but the empty "husk" of the mech still awards points for being destroyed. Teammates blowing up husks rewards no points, to prevent teams farming points from friendly mechs. This makes a dynamic where a pilot can choose to eject late and give enemies the (well-deserved) points for beating the mech fair and square, or eject early and risk having his machine stolen by an enemy or teammate.

  • Damaging Buildings:
    1 point per 500 damage. A Timed C4 deals 2500 damage, so each successful C4 explosion on a terminal would give 5 points. 20 points would result from a successful four-C4 bombing run, while external bombardment is no longer pointless, being able to supply a steady stream of points.
  • Repairing Buildings:
    1 point per 750 damage repaired. A Technician's repairgun restores 2625 health per minute, so repairing 10,000dmg (4 C4s) would award a little over 13 points.

Differences from Standard AoW

First off, there is a time limit. Is an hour really the amount of time most people want to play one round for? This isn't League of Legends. Hell, in the days before Sudden Death were put in AOW, games would sometimes last to two and a half hours before anything got done. Point is, there would be a time limit and it wouldn't be 60 minutes. Let's say that would be around 20-40 minutes.

Eric on the current points system wrote:
<Eric>y'know the entire purpose of the points system i suggested was to make SD a rare thing
<Eric>but that never happened
<Eric>the points system actually got in
<Eric>but it's...pointless
<Eric>points are completely arbitrary and games are still decided by whoever blows up all 5 buildings first
<Eric>guess they missed that bit where points were supposed to determine the game

A rough version of points is currently in AoW. However, like Eric's pointed out, they affect the game in no way like me and Eric intended them to.

In Bodycount, the game works by a points system, and not by a "complete stalemate until a building gets destroyed or one team gets bored and leaves" system. This points system would prevent stalemates and most likely keep players from getting as bored as the whole "killing people for no real reason than to piss them off" mindset.

The very important difference between this and the "instant sudden death servers" in the past are that the points go up and have no limit, while the ticket system goes down (which is actually really demotivating) and has a hard limit at which point you lose and cuts the game short, which sucks. Here, people can wail on each other as long as they like until the timelimit's up (and aim for highscores!), or blow up each other's bases. Also the other big difference are that buildings are still repairable and have their standard health. Taking them down is still a priority since each C4 gives two kill's worth of points (that's 8 if you successfully detonate four!) and disabled buildings makes it easier to acquire points in the first place, since the enemy's abilities are less flexible.

The game can end in two ways. It's very simple. End up knocking down the other's buildings, or have more points when the time limit expires. The game revolves around what AOW players have the most fun doing: Blasting each other's heads off their shoulders. Face it, when nagged to go on a C4 run, half of your mind really doesn't want to. This takes that concept and makes it the objective of the game. Hence, Bodycount.

Buildings would also most likely have slightly reduced health to facilitate faster game progression. This means damaging and repairing buildings takes less time. Compounded with the possible absence of sandbags in coming patches, this means players can no longer ignore the base completely and defensive play will be as important as it is in CTF. Given the more vulnerable base, I'm sure the defenders will have plenty to shoot at. :>

EDIT: This was designed with the idea that the mode could be triggered with a serverside CVAR (aow_gametype "1"), and so players could choose to play on the TW server or a Standard server with no extra downloading or any extra server customization than one command.

Last edited by atac on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:24 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:01 am

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Location: British Columbia
Post Re: Alternate Gametype - "Bodycount" or "Guerilla Warfare"
Edited values. Still up for debate.

Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:48 am

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Location: British Columbia
Post Re: Alternate Gametype - "Bodycount" or "Guerilla Warfare"
Edited once again after a lengthy discussion on IRC on the matter. I hope this is good.

Playtesting with those proved that killwhoring was DEFINITELY not as successful as attacking the objective. It also proved that an advantage can still be gained by bombing buildings, and that it's not a useless venture if it doesn't destroy the building completely. It still nets you points. More points than trying to killwhore in the same amount of time.


Last edited by atac on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:31 am

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:21 am
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Location: South Australia
Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Bodycount"
I agree.

Just thought of a way to get bonus points.
<Dark-Assassin> just knife people with a stealth suit
<Dark-Assassin> anyway, the knife will still be good for non stealths, ie. sneaking
<Medic|AFK> heh, yeah. Knifing guys would get you one point at a time, rite
<Dark-Assassin> should have melee do 2 points :P
<Medic|AFK> Hmm yes
<Medic|AFK> That could work
<Dark-Assassin> and maybe 3 points without the stealth suit
<Medic|AFK> Yeah, those really hard to pull off kills
<Medic|AFK> could be worth a little more
<Dark-Assassin> chainsaw, leave that at 2, 1 for stealth
<Dark-Assassin> just maybe for that

Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:25 pm
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Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Bodycount"
To clarify the game for players, I think that when in BC mode, players should have HUD messages telling them how many points they earned when they got them. Nothing fancy, just a +1 or +whatever below their crosshairs.

It'd help them figure out which is worth what and give them personal achievement for what they did. Help them learn the new mode faster.

Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:40 pm

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:34 pm
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Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Bodycount"
Sounds good to me.

Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:16 pm
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Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Bodycount"
I don't understand the whole idea. My english is limit XD

But I think I'm not wrong... we will see everyone using mechs.
Infantery will use, demolition expert, mass driver, and rocket launcher ... gattling and gauss to orcas,
Oh... I forget technicians also will be a usefull class to repair mechs, maybe util too to refill Jugs Ions.
The rest will not be use (chew class, fire class, sniper class, machine clasee, gunman, granade class, plasma class, etc, etc...)

Becouse a Mech kill more than 1 before die... at least kill 4.
The good players can kill 10 or 15 before died.
And if u can eject... is a big business buy a mech, kill a lot (more points) and eject before someone kills you.

Mech time will be come back... :roll:
No more Skills, just brute force with mechs.

PD: I keep with SD ... :P

[AS] Zajaquiel

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:51 am
Your local sprite tweaker
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Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Total War" mode
A single suicide guy can take down a titan. :P
Afterwards all the classes you mentioned would be quite useful for cleaning out the mass of players that were previously supported by the mech.

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:41 am
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Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Total War" mode
I see where you`re getting at, Medic. Basically, fragging would be nice but it would be better to make a C4 blow up to gain more points.

Well, there`s one problem with that - you actually have to get inside the base, plant a C4 and make it explode without getting raped and getting your C4 disarmed in an instant. You covered that with the changes of the defense structure in the upcoming version of AOW2, but we can`t be sure that infiltrating bases will be efficent enough for points until the new structure gets tested in real games, no matter what changes are made.

By efficent I mean that it`d be worth putting your resources into gaining points from demolishing bases, which is not the current situation because you have 95% chance of dying and and getting your shit disarmed, making your investment pointless.

Back to the point: If the changed defense structure in the upcoming version still won`t be enough to make infiltrations efficent, then it still pays off more to just wander around and shoot people, which would make the system just a modification of SD (which mostly ends when one team runs out of lives).

However, this system is a solid base for a good one. If we ˝fix˝ the economy and defenses issues one day, then this system will be superior to the current one.

Why? Because buildings have huge amounts of health, and any investments you make will not be enough to take down a building from one strike. Since re-infiltration will be risky (if you died or just went back to refill), it won`t be worth your money to take down a building since it can be completely repaired by the time you go to your base and back. This brings the comment ˝Well, you can have someone to come with you˝, but if that person dies too, you`re pretty much fucked. If you bring more people, you will most likely be noticed during your attempt of infiltration. Either way, once the C4s start beeping and the announcer starts screaming, the whole enemy team will get to where you`re attacking and rape yo shizzle. And since buildings have tons of health, you can`t do it quickly.

On the other hand, if we make buildings have small health, that might be also troublesome - your building can be destroyed before you even notice anything fishy going on in your base. Ragequit alert.

So, with this system, not only will you actually have some profits for managing to make progress in destroying a building (aka damage it), but the enemy team won`t be crippled if you do so (Before, the only way to benefit from an enemy building was to destroy it completely, which then crippled the enemy team. Now that implication is gone).

I hope you understand where I`m getting at, and sorry for the long-ass post, but I wanted to give a rather detailed opinion.

Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:57 am

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Location: British Columbia
Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Total War" mode
Yeah, I know where you're coming from and I see it myself, too. I know there are other problems interfering with the progression of matches (stalling) and discouragement of playing the objective, and that it's more important to take care of those first before this system can be seriously considered.

Keep in mind however that this is with some IRC discussed possible changes included. I'm thinking of things like C4 beeps being replaced by clockwork ticks, buildings having low enough HP to allow a Demoman's full payload of C4 to almost destroy one, and the standardization of building healths (aside from the obelisk they're assumed to all have equal health anyway, so why not apply it?). A team should know there's something "fishy" going on when they hear their Obelisk and turrets going off, and should have a few people around base to investigate. Currently util defenses and the ease of repairing all but the worst of c4 spamming means most people think "oh big deal, what are they going to do? laser rifle the building to death?". Not to mention sandbags aren't blocking every possible path through base, like the maps were designed. Madcat and Artillery sieges on enemy bases would also be a credit 2 team if the enemy's Mid play is poor.

Therefore with some of these changes, a successful infiltration would be more probable, and a team's defense would have to be more alert for anything wary. A team would need to balance Defense, Mid, and Offense: Defense to protect the base, mid to keep control of field and help D or O when needed, and offense to attack the enemy base directly. An imbalance in any of those could mean open opportunities for the enemy team to take advantage of: Bad D would mean easy infiltrations of base for C4 and beacon attacks, bad Mid would mean opening the field to allow sieges from outside, and bad O would mean no progress would be made as well as allowing enemies to divide more manpower to Mid and O, meaning the first team would be more likely overwhelmed.

I'm actually hoping for a sort of system like SD, just more open-ended. Most players can agree that the time before SD is just spent attempting to camp the enemy base or prepare for SD. 45 minutes of preparation time for 10 minutes is stupid.

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:07 pm
Gary Mothafuckin' Oak
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:13 pm
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Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Total War" mode
Medicris wrote:
I'm actually hoping for a sort of system like SD, just more open-ended. Most players can agree that the time before SD is just spent attempting to camp the enemy base or prepare for SD. 45 minutes of preparation time for 10 minutes is stupid.

Medicris, consider having the Sudden Death after 25 minutes and 25 minutes for Sudden Death. The initial 25 minutes is to limit the amount of failed C4 detonations on a building. Sometimes team effort continues to fail when buildings of the opposing team have like 3% HP, but are repaired in no time before Sudden Death.

You mad?

Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:47 pm

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Location: British Columbia
Post Re: [Added] Alternate Gametype - "Total War" mode
Good call. I'll seriously consider that.

Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:48 am
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