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[Nah] Remove defense 
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:04 am
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Post [Nah] Remove defense
Sandbags, mines rand razorwire, and limit gunturrets to 5-6. Because each base always (85% of time) become impassable stronghold with TONS of defence, to nuke/ion it. And then players just begin to earn frags only, to win the game (or mech rush (which is likely to be failed)). This removal will improve the gameplay, bring more action and drive, make players to use nuke/ions/c4 more often, and use teamplay. The current state of AOW is just mindless fragfest.


Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:05 pm
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Post Re: Remove defense
YES! YES! FINALLY SOMEONE WITH THE SAME THOUGHTS AS MINE!
As much as I hate the utility guy and think that the defenses ruin the game, those defenses are a big part of the game and just have no chance of being completely removed instantly. However, I agree with you that there's just too much of them and you have no chance of entering a building, but instantly removing defenses is too extreme. Instead, we can make sure that there won't be that much defenses by having a few restrictions and special limits that apply to buildings only, as I suggested here - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=858
And guess what, not even THAT has much support at all. The players just like the way things are now, but hopefully there are a few other (clear-minded) developers who agree with me, so my suggestion might have a chance.


Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:29 pm
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Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:26 pm
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Post Re: Remove defense
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=864 :oops:
Now in less-shitpost format:
Maybe I'm too used to the current gameplay, but building a goddamn "fortress" is an essential part of AOW gameplay. If in 40 minutes I manage to work with my teammates in destruction of 2-4 buildings by sneaking in C4/Nuke and get past defenses built by a player who actually knows what he is doing then I consider them be vulnerable enough. If there is this proposed change and we are left with more limited amount of turrets, they have to be extra strong and each mine have to take like 30-60 seconds to be defused using stealth laser rifle.
Is it really supposed to be easy to get in? In the worst case you have to gradually take out parts of the defenses, so the util doesn't notice. Well, I'm entertained doing that.


Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:41 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Location: British Columbia
Post Re: Remove defense
Meh. The sheer amount of sandbags that people spawn are a bit of an issue, but limiting that seems to be a joykill. The turrets, while sure they're weak, can be spammed everywhere so that a stealth literally has no place to hide lest he be targeted by 4 turrets and die in a second. Miniravens are cool but they see stealths and show you exactly where they are with their homing rockets, which is probably pretty frustrating. The biggest problem is omnipresent turrets in every possible place.

Hell, if the one class specially made for infiltrating can't even do its job properly without great difficulty and the Util can pretty much sit back once he's done and repair the occasional turret or sandbag cluster, there's something wrong. With the Obelisk helping out, alarming the entire team and 20 turrets plus 5 stealth detecting miniravens strewn around the base, it just seems far, far too automated and makes human defense nearly obsolete besides the one or two Utility guys rebuilding whatever gets blown up.

Personally, the way I see as helpful to make infiltrating and defending more fun is to lessen the number of turrets but make them tougher, stronger and harder to take down. That way, each and every turret is valuable, you must place each strategically, and you get far more reward out of each well-placed turret. On the flipside, stealths have a more fun time doing their job without dying so much to turret spam, and group tactics work more effectively: games progress faster due to being easier to get into a building without 4 turrets outside of it and 3 turrets inside. This of course means an actual balance of defense, mid and offense players needed on a team playing the objective instead of TDM like a proper teamgame (CTF/Team Fortress/like any real multiplayer game anyone?).

All from a rather simple change. And mines don't need to change. Maybe mines can be disarmed instantly with a knife to make stealth's jobs easier, but remain harder with other non-infiltration specialized classes so they're not useless.


Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:22 pm
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Post Re: Remove defense
projectionist wrote:
Is it really supposed to be easy to get in?

It is supposed to depend on how much players put effort in defending the base. The way things are now, it really doesn't.

@Medic:
Exactly, but I still do think mines needs limiting too. The way things are now, they can be placed on every door and make this defense system more "automatized". There are a lot of classes that are helpless when it comes to mines. On another side, though, buildings should be attacked by team formations. Have one gauss, one SSG, and one Engineer (or even better Utility guy for C4/Ammo supply) and you have a perfect team. So yeah, keeping the mine limit as it is right now discourages "lone-wolf" attacks and is okay. However, you know today's playerbase. They are so not co-operative. Sure there are a few people that are co-operative, but there are a lot of times when I say something on team chat and nobody responds, in fact, nobody says a shit both in normal and team chat during the whole game. I fear that if we keep this mine limit, only stealths and engineers would be able to infiltrate bases (because players would rather do shit by themselves than in teams), while the rest keep playing team deathmatch. But it's not for sure, since players will see that their base can be infiltrated more easily. Who knows what will happen, but it's definitely worth a shot and better than the way things are now.

However, I disagree with you on one-shot knife disarming. That's even more powerful than the bomb-squad gun, and mines would be useless when they are especially meant to slow down attacks such as planting beacons, mostly done by the stealths.


Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:05 pm
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Post Re: Remove defense
You know that the knife and laser guns can only disarm proxy mines and have no effect on any other explosive, right? For the knife thing:

1. You need to be in melee range of the mine without setting it off.
2. You need to decloak and make a loud noise and expose yourself to any defense around, automated or human.
3. Repeat for all 5 mines + the razor wire/bag usually in there.

Idk. Doesn't sound OP to me.


Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:14 pm
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Post Re: Remove defense
At least nobody can hear you. I am not saying that the current time you take to disarm mines is okay, but what you suggested can disarm a mine pack in 5 shots. It's too extreme. Not even a gun specialized for disarming can disarm mines that fast. Also, the knife melee range is not so short that mines can fuck you up. Besides, aren't you one of the people who want to discourage lone-wolf attacks in the first place? If your idea to limit turrets but make them more powerful gets implemented, you won't be exposed to so many turrets/alarms. And if you are, your team will take care of it :)


Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:06 am
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Location: British Columbia
Post Re: Remove defense
Um. Exactly. Yes. If there's less turrets and those turrets are better, then more players will actively defend the base where turrets can't cover. Which kind of makes the mine disarming thing harder because the stealth is broadcast to everyone via the obelisk, getting blocked by sandbag walls, and most likely wires in the door too. Taking 10 seconds to bust down a single door still sounds pretty generous to the defenders.

But yes, it's easy to assume that once players realize they can't spam turrets in every possible sightline, some people will play defense and most likely get kills that way too since enemies will be more inclined to infiltrate too. Lone-wolf attacks will most likely still fail unless your team has like one human defender or less in which case your team is doing it wrong.

You see what happens in a proper team game when one team has an imbalance of defense vs. offense.


Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:26 am
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Post Re: Remove defense
viewtopic.php?f=59&p=8472#p8472


Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:56 pm
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guds

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:26 am
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Post Re: [Nah] Remove defense
Hello everyone first time to be here this topic i was asking if what was the best weapon for removing defensive skills,thanks for understanding my english:).


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Last edited by Jhirbirt on Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:52 am
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Diening slowly

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:29 pm
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Location: Brazil
Post Re: [Nah] Remove defense
well this post is near 1 year old but i'll awsner you:

Lazer Rifle - Essencial - It can slowly destroy enemy turrets, sandbags, razors and can disarm C4 Mines.

MassDriver - You can use it to blow up turrets whit a single shot (if you're lucky) and destroy some others defenses more easy.

Repair Gun - If your rank is high you gain a repair gun it can be used to disarm C4 Mines much fast.

C4's - Good to destroy groups of defences togheter but have to wait

Any other ENERGY Based gun to disarm c4 mines and blow stuffs up.


Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:02 pm
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