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All Out War 2 - View topic - [Addressed] Remove spawns in buildings
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[Addressed] Remove spawns in buildings 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:02 pm
Posts: 178
Post [Addressed] Remove spawns in buildings
Ok this is probably boring to implement but i think spawns in buildings sould be removed.

1. Its "unfair" to have one dude spawning and being immortal the first few seconds and killing you when you have taken the time to infiltrate a building, sometimes completely stealth. Also this would reward teams who actually go around patrolling/defending their base instead of playing LOL deathmatch.

2. It makes it harder to build defenses the way you would want as a util. Typical example is in res where you can mostly just place 1 sandbag at the back door due to the spawn there.

Soo, go ahead and kill this idea 8-)


Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
/me kills this idea.
In all seriousness, I agree with this. It's one of the reasons defending nukes fails most of the times, because there is a guy shooting at you and you can't do shit. If someone put an effort in planting a nuke in the enemy's base, the enemy should not put way less effort in removing it, IMO.


Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:37 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
I think the spawn invulnerability is the culprit here, not the actual spawns.. But if the spawn invul is nixed, we get the issue of spawn kills.

Maybe compromise this by lessening the duration of spawn invulnerability? I think it's pretty ridiculous at the moment.


Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:41 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings


Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:42 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
Spawns around buildings (close, but not just at the doors) would be nice.

As for spawn invulnerability, 2.5 seconds?


Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:47 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
What's the current spawn invulnerability duration?


Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:52 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
I'm so disagree.

With spawn inside buildings can be destroy the building anyway.
Everyone does (except amateurs xD)... everyday. All we can see it.


If we remove spawn in buildings we will have problems when a base has been taken and severals mechs (especcialy orcas) ir around the base searchings enemys.
Now, a player can spawn inside, hear where are the mechs and choose a plan to fight back.
What happen if all spawn outside? Barely will have a chance to survive before get inside in a building.
So if someone take the obe, and mechs arrive to base... it will be a rain of rages XD becouse nobody could give resistence.


In my opinion K4r4t3k4n4k4s is thinking of himself, is thinking on his gameplay.
He always do a very soon stealth rush.
He mainly try to destroy buildings with c4.

This suggestion is like the players who hasn't good skills so they use mech instead, becouse with mech can kill easily.
In the game their mechs are destroyed after kill 5 or 7 guys (or less in amateur cases), so they want more. And come to the forum asking for "more powerfulls Mechs" (speed, weapons, ammo, hp)

K4r4t3k4n4k4s is one of the best players using stealth + c4 tactic. He doesn't need this.
I'm good too (In any case I don't suck :P XD) with stealth+c4 , and I don't need it either.
Nobody need it :roll:


Remove will help to stealths, utils spam, time cops. Will be more easy to take a building.
Don't try to make the game a easy game to win. This must be hard, otherwise it will be boring.

Regards.

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Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:29 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
Zajaquiel, thanks for the feedback (or err.. "thanks" :D )

I have thought of the implications and I see the issue with Stealth and the classes you mention gaining more power without building spawns.
However I don't think the outcome of a building infiltration should be dependent on the other teams "luck" in spawning at the right spot at the right time. I think the game should be predictable in that sense.

I could cope with less spawn invulnerability time as it seems as the least hassle solution and with more predictable result. But it won't remove the problem with being spotted and reported by spawners, if the team has sensible in game chat.

I also think of my game play in the sense that I rather often find myself defending the base alone as util. Maybe it would be tactical to make more mistakes in doing that so team members realise they need to give a hand. 8-)


Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:33 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
Infiltrating bases shouldn't be easy, I agree, but it shouldn't be hard as fuck either, which is the current situation. If we encourage more stealths and utils, then players will be more focused on what the game is about (that is, taking down bases. Sudden death was invented to end a game that never ends. These days sudden death is the standard, while it shouldn't be). Also, players will need to think of their base more, which will encourage some manual base defending. This automatic base defense is more powerful that it should be anyway.

Furthermore, defending a base by having serious advantages like invulnerability for holy shit time whenever you spawn near an enemy is not fair. Like you said, base infiltrating should be hard, and it is not fair to be ended by some noob who just spawned near you and has invulnerability.

As for the mech spamming thing, that's kind of your team's fault for not taking care of them at the right time. Individuals can be as good as they want, but if they face a team, they'll never win. AOW is a team game. If your team doesn't work right, it goes down. Like in the previous case, defending a base with a tactic that depends on luck is doing it wrong. And this luck has a pretty high chance to happen these days, which makes it unfair to infiltrators, not to mention how ridiculously powerful the util defesnes are. They can defend a base against a wave of players on their own!


Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:15 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
Nice post Konda.

We always must remember too there are amateurs guys who doesn't know make good defenses.
And an util make the diferent between win or lose a game.
If one's have "bad luck" and be in a noob team, and remove Spawn in buildings is removed. It's a game lost.


About "Luck", there is luck when you enter in a game. At least, I select "autoselect".
(Except sometimes when I see that if I choose I can help to balance a team or when I want to play with my girlfriend [Isabel])
There is Luck... with time cop and with the crate too.

Element "Luck" is part of the game.

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Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:36 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
Even if there is a util guy that sucks, a team can still win if they're organized and have a few players defend the base. Because the defenses were meant to assist players in defending the base, not defend the base for the players, which, unfortunately, is what they're doing right now. We're "trying" to fix that, though.

As for the luck element, I agree. And it's acceptable, as long as it has reasonable limits. For an exampe, the crate can give you something very beneficial, but it takes a minute to respawn. And there is a low probability that you will get something powerful. As for the time cop - it has 50% of chance to teleport inside the enemy's base, BUT where he will teleport is another story. There's a small probability that a time cop will teleport inside a building that has not been destroyed, and that he won't teleport on top of mines.

AOW games usually have a lot of players involved. Okay, there's not much probability that only one person will spawn in the same building you are infiltrating and have invulnerability (a game of 1v1). However, in games such as 8v8, players die oftenly and they spawn to the battle field oftenly. And since their spawning is very frequent, there's a much higher probability that someone will spawn in the same building as you with invulnerability, and shoot you to death while you can't do any damage to them. Add to the fact that you managed to not get accidentally hit by someone as a stealth and that you managed to infiltrate a building silently including removing the defenses, and then you get killed by a random noob with invulnerability, and there was no way you could fight back. This is one of those things that makes base infiltration not worth the effort and players just give up and wait for sudden death.

What I am not sure about is what we should do - should we remove the spawners from buildings or reduce the time a player has invulnerability?


Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:40 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
Reduce spawn invul time. Right now it's 5 whole seconds, long enough to easily kill whatever you spawn near.

I'd suggest possibly 3 or 2.5 seconds instead. Imo, it should've defended against SSG instakillers and other things like that, but the right amount of time to orient oneself (seeing where he spawned and if there's an immediate enemy in front to shoot at).


Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:10 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings

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Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:28 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
I'd actually keep it at 5 seconds, if we (lol repeated idea) make the Melee/Missile states of the player actor remove it.


Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings


Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
Other idea can be: The player can't shoot until spawn invul time has over.

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Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:29 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings
Remove spawns in buildings = Awful idea.

I play a few hours at day and I see All days, at least, 3 times a day... a building has been destroy 7 or 8 minutes after start the game.
And make good defenses in the whole base take between 20 and 27 minutes.
Don't believe me? Count it. And better... stay all day in Aow, I bet it will be a lot more than 3 times.


This awful idea will worst this situation.
Remove spawn in buildings will bring fear, and everybody will be in a race for make the rush first, and a few guys hurry for make some defenses* and try to stand the rushes (stealth + c4)

* All the firsts defenses are so easily to destroy for a group of stealths, except if there are many players in the base taking care the defenses, until the util can make good defenses.


Go out and make frags will be what care less.
And make frags, kill people, is more fun that destroy buildings.
And about all things... doom is kill people.

Don't turn out the game in a crap very fast rush spam.

Bye.


Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:48 am
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings

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Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:26 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings


Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:54 pm
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Post Re: Remove spawns in buildings


Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:32 am
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