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Better Turrets and Spicing Up (Edited November 12/2012) 
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Location: British Columbia
Post Better Turrets and Spicing Up (Edited November 12/2012)
<Eric>seriously we have two turrets: budda budda budda minigun and pew. pew. pew. rifle
<Eric>how boring can we get

After this we discussed different ways to spice up the turrets, and we came up with a few:

Global changes:
  • The BASIC PREMISE of this is "quality over quantity". Right now, it's extremely quantity > quality.
  • Will not attack outside certain range, has RTS-styled sight ranges. Though they will fire back at attackers from outside their range, they will not shoot enemies out of range on their own. Because 50$ basic turrets trying to snipe across the map look stupid. Will also encourage more strategic placement of each type.
  • Bullet-based turrets use very fast tracer projectiles instead of hitscans, but on the flip side have little spread. Therefore, very fast and/or far targets can evade some fire, but will hit their mark on slower or bigger targets.
  • Laser attacks can stunlock turrets with 100% chance, but other attacks have 0% chance to stun. Instead they have a "detection time" like the Obelisk: They require a split second to lock on to an enemy and fire, so a turret can be evaded if it's placed in a spot vulnerable to this tactic.
  • May cost more to build, and take longer. Tradeoff would be they could be repairable.
  • Looking at a friendly turret will display its HP and owner the same way Medics can by looking at teammates. Goes hand in hand with the repairable thing.
  • Overall, turrets have more staying power and accuracy, but less cheap insta-kill capabilities. They assist defenders, not replace them.
    • Standard Turrets:
      • 400HP (Previously 250). Replaces basic turret. 6-round bursts. Armed with simple guns and submachine gun bullets. Decent accuracy, hardy and cheap, their flexibility is offset by their low damage. Average sight range. These faults can be eased through building them in numbers. Worthless against mechs. Beeps when alerted.
        Video Example
    • Flak Turrets:
      • 600HP (Previously 500). Replaces mech turret. Armed with small twin flak cannons and flak shells. Shotguns hitscan clouds of flak at a low rate of fire, but only at mechs and flying targets. Long sight range. Beeps when alerted.
        Video Example
    • Gatling Turrets:
      • 300HP (Previously 400). Replaces Klaxon turret. Armed with small twin gatling guns and rounds. A more offensive close range turret that trades some armour for an extreme and constant rate of fire, but suffers from a short windup time and much more spread than basic turrets. Relies on sheer volume of fire to attack. Less than average sight range.
    • Rifle Turrets:
      • 400HP (Previously 300). Armed with twin rifles and rifle bullets. Support-oriented turrets that rely on shooting targets with accurate rifle shots where most can't shoot back, but has the lowest total damage rate. Long sight range, but has a minimum range (cannot fire at enemies too close). Blares a klaxon when alerted.
    • Artillery Turrets:
      • 750 HP (Previously 500). Armed with artillery cannons and 50mm/80mm shells. An advanced support turret that suppresses infantry with 50mm shells and pummels mechs with 80mm shells, its shots are highly visible and slow enough to dodge. Lower projectile speed than handheld arty cannon but has no drop. Long sight range, but has a minimum range (cannot fire at enemies too close) Takes two slots for the dual purpose it takes. Blares a klaxon when alerted.

      Personal note: Repair turrets shouldn't exist, they nullify many attack strategies and do the jobs Engineers/Technicians/Utility Guys are supposed to do.

Other turret ideas pitched by other players have been things like single Titan flamer turrets, plasma gun turrets, and even a massive 3-slot Tesla Coil with incredible damage but horrendous fire rate.


Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:34 am

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:02 pm
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up
I like it. Building defenses could be more fun.

I think it would be simpler if all turrets fire at everything but with different damages. If the thought is that you should replace turrets depending on the enemy strategy.. Maybe you should be able to look at the map to see where different types of turrets are placed so you can replace them after for example researching advanced turrets or seeing an incoming mech rush ? At least you should be able to clearly distinguish which type of turrets that has been placed.

Flak can be used for anti-infantry when playing Guardian today. So for consistency I'd like them to fire at infantry as well. Guess you could replace rifle turrets with these to lessen the amount of turrets available. Rifle turrets is a better name though as it is similar to the existing weapon.

Repair turrets aren't used much as I think most prefer turrets doing damage. Perhaps if they would give the builder experience/points when repairing just as inflicting a kill with a turret does it would be used more.

I'd like to get points when building defenses.. but am not sure if that could be done without being used in the wrong way.

Sniper turret would be fun but too OP. :)

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:00 am
Your local sprite tweaker
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up
K4r4t3k4n4k4s wrote:
Repair turrets aren't used much as I think most prefer turrets doing damage. Perhaps if they would give the builder experience/points when repairing just as inflicting a kill with a turret does it would be used more.

I think they should actually drain the team's income an itsy bitsy bit when they actualy repair something.

Not that I think that's a good idea, however.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:10 am

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:34 pm
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up
I like this list, but I don't really see much is changed. I don't think you're really addressing the problem here.

A repair gun sitting on a turret. Acts like it does now, derp de derp. Considering just removing these completely, since it basically seems to nullify seige tactics, which are a legitimate strategy.

I'd keep these things, though maybe make them really frail so that if you do prevent a siege with these things, you'd have to keep an eye on them before stealths peek their noses in and prod these things to death. "Realism"-wise, you could say they were designed around these super ultra defenses nobody could breach so they needed no armoring. :mrgreen:

Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:42 am
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up
Reapirs turrets are useful in AOW11 where the Barracks usually gets external damages, and we don't want to repair it all the time... :P

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Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:49 pm

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up (Edited Jul 03/2012)
Edited original post, added and changed a lot.

Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:58 am
AKA Dardyn
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up (Edited Jul 03/2012)
OK here are my thoughts on this:

Basic: Meh I don't know about 7 round bursts. Maybe like 2 seconds of constant fire instead?

Flak: I really like that idea. It would make anti-mech turrets more effective (or rather less useless).

Shotgun: This is a pretty solid idea for a close ranged turret for internal defenses. IMO they should be much more inaccurate than current Klaxon Turrets.

Rifle: I think rifle turrets should inflict less damage so they don't facerape even at close range.

Artillery: The artillery turret seems fine right now IMO. If anything, a health increase could be useful.

Repair: Does not need changing. If you place these in MCTs, you lose potential XP and Creds but you get more firepower to ward off attackers. More short term than anything.

Flame: I don't know about this one. While it would seem incredibly devastating there wouldn't be many areas to place it because of the potential to destroy one's own base.

Artillery MKII: Umm... Make this a much more expensive turret option than Artillery and maybe it would be nice.

Laser Turret: Meh make them vulnurable to explosive weaponry even moreso than other turrets. That is the only way I can see them being potentially balanced.

Tesla: I was actually thinking of Tesla as like an extremely specialized defensive Turret. I imagined it as like a short ranged extreme damage turret but having the weakness of sheer numbers overwhelming it because of the horrendously slow firing rate. Good for placing it for 1-2 minutes but can become useless later on once people surround it.

Hybrid: Meh I'm starting to have doubts on this one. Just because of its versatility. (Make it more expensive than both gun and mech turret combined and maybe It would be okay).

Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:59 am
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up (Edited Jul 03/2012)
turrets as they stand are inadequate....we all know this, they are not defence, more deterant. So weak and easy to evade, they are only really any good inside buildings in the hope of catching some unsuspecting intruders. Artillery turets rate of fire is too slow to really matter against mechs, so next to useless really and a waste of slots: more often than not the mech destroys them before they even fire a single shot. A quick fix of the weak turret / defence problem would be to simply increase the slots available from a max of 20 to maybe 30 again. I do like the idea of a flame version though for inside buildings and I suggested teslas for AOW2 about a year ago as an anti mech defence, I even built the models for them.

Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:41 pm
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up (Edited Jul 03/2012)
I agree with Michelle, Turrets are percived as a little road block that than rather than a powerfull defense, the only point of them that a smart util would see is that it doenst keep stealth troopers out, but just to find stealths in the 20 second time slot of you possibly hearing a steath mow down through turrets that are allready weak defense, and making them more powerful would accually make them live up to the pourpose. and the only way you kill with a turret is by that 1 fail that runs into the open not expecting turrets and getting aniahalated in 3 seconds. Oh and the ANTI-Mech turret turret does nothing really and replacing it with i more advenced and or powerful effective turret. coughcoughbringbackthemissleturretcoughcough.

Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:05 pm

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Post Re: Turret Variation and Spicing Up (Edited Jul 03/2012)
Missile turrets were ass though, mostly just because they were more potent at anti-infantry than the rest of the actual anti-infantry turrets. I do agree on the Artillery not being worth their cost though.

Personally, instead of going for the "quantity over quality" outlook you're pushing for, I'd go the opposite direction and make the turrets actually decently armoured and changed to have less DPS but more accuracy. In turn, they'd be more limited in number and probably be bigger/widee so you can't stuff them in stupid places. Stunlocking would not be possible, but they won't kill a properly equipped anti-mech/turret enemy on their own.

30 piss-weak turrets that can nearly instakill is just a plain annoying clusterfuck and everyone knows it. I'd rather have turrets that are actually competent so you don't need 30 of them to kill a guy. They'd be more accurate so they're not bad for detection and point defense, but not doing as much damage. Their role would be more to soften up enemies for a defenseman to finish them off, instead of something that allows a team to completely ignore defense once turrets are up.

EDIT: Main post tweaked a bit again. Give it a look-over if you'd like.

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:02 pm

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 pm
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Post Re: Better Turrets and Spicing Up (Edited November 12/2012)
Updated again, everything's been rewritten. Hopefully is more comprehensive.

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:49 am
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