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[Nope] Disallow certain utility items to be [...] 
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Post [Nope] Disallow certain utility items to be [...]
Topic title: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildings

As well as a limit to mines that can be built inside buildings.

Basically you can built 25 mines max in buildings and you can do whatever you want with the other 25 mines, just not anywhere near buildings.

Why? Well, everyone has been mentioning these stalemates and they actually happen because it is nearly impossible to take down buildings if there are utility guys who know what they are doing. With a 50 mines limit, there are enough mines to secure every possible entrance to buildings, add turrets, sandbags, razor wires, mini ravens, and players circulating in certain buildings and you get stacked fortresses. Mines by themselves are very discouraging and make sure normal classes have no chance of infiltrating buildings. If there is a special limit for mines to be built inside buildings then we can make sure that not every door is impassible, which gives normal classes a chance of infiltrating.

The same goes for turrets. Apparently one turret is enough to kill 1 marine, which is a bit too powerful in my opinion. Spam these turrets everywhere inside these buildings and you get automated defense. The utility items are NOT meant to REPLACE human defense, but just to HELP marines in DEFENDING THEIR BASE. The way things are now is just wrong.

TL;DR


Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:57 pm
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
DISLIKE~
That's what defenses are for.


Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:39 am
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
In all fairness, Renegade had nothing but proxy mines besides the Obelisk/AGT, which could only be laid by technicians one at a time, and so if the barracks was destroyed they couldn't lay any.

Even then bases proved fucking hard to infiltrate. Now in AOW, we apparently added miniravens, sandbags, wire and etc. on top of that, and you have overkill and thus derp matches.

One alternative is not having such a mass number of turrets, but making each a more resilient defense. Renegade maps often had two large turrets guarding the entrances as well as the Obelisk. They had lots of HP, but didn't do a huge lot of damage. Kept back lone wolf idiots, but overwhelmed by groups of enemies. I think a few notes could be taken from that instead of having a literal wall of wimpy turrets that can't take a single Gauss shot.

I think a way to make turrets more strategic to utils and fair to stealths is to make each turret more resilient, but having less overall. That way, spamming them in clumps or lines makes a barricade sure, but you're leaving other entrances and buildings open. 95% of the time I see about 10 turrets out front spammed with bags on the sides, and a klaxon or two in each building, and a miniraven in each room along with mines, wire, and god knows what else. All of that plus the Utility guys themselves walking around with machineguns and massive armor. Makes stealth work pretty damn daunting and so no one wants to do it. Then, they go frag. Then, stalemates.

gg.


Last edited by atac on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:55 am
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
Oh guys I am really disapointed reading this now. Even stalemates are better then playing (utilting) with so limited resources. How far you will level down this game to prevent stalemates ? I really don't like this suggestion Konda.

I remember Medicris you mentioned, some points system that could replace ticket system:
Light classes one point, stronger two, if you carry plasma cannon thats maybe +1 point for you, light mechs 2 and stronger 4. If you damage buildings you level down enemy points as well. And you can put tickets (points) to 50. My point is that game has bigger chance to finish in SD by tickets than destroying opposing buldings. So this way we will keep our heavy fortified "Constantinople" bases and game we will finish very quickly cuz of good points system. Also points system may go as both teams start with 0 points at SD and they are getting some points by doing some tasks (killing, damaging and other..), points go ascending (increasing) way.

Just focus on making very good points system on SD, not on lowering classes or buildings or defenses.
I hope this could help.

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Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:46 pm
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
Ermac, our focus here is to prevent stalemates, that is to make games actually finish before SD. Because 60 minutes of not being able to conquer buildings bloated with mines, ravens, sandbags, mines, turrets (that are op as fuck) and not to mention players crossing by is kool amirite.

About the points system, it's actually a game mode on its own, not something implemented to SD.

If you want 2 hours matches with as bloated buildings as ones can get, then I suggest you play CnC Renegade instead. This is Doom. This is action. Doom has always been and always will be a fast-paced action game, and we're working on that right now. If you want realism and that crap then go play Renegade.


Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:34 pm
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
Oh go on, I wont bother you guys, our well pro players will make game long and exciting. I wonder why I got many disagreed opinions (always so) ? Give me please some tips.

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Last edited by Ermac on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:30 am, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:22 pm
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
Ah nevermind, there's been some misunderstanding. However the point still stands - the game was meant so people take down bases, not have team deathmatch for 60 minutes and then having even more tdm until one team runs out of tickets. What we're trying to do is make it so killing bases before SD is actually possible. The way things are now, you just spam shit in your base and the shit does the work for you, when it is only supposed to help YOU do it.


Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:49 pm
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
Konda' wrote:
If you want 2 hours matches with as bloated buildings as ones can get, then I suggest you play CnC Renegade instead. This is Doom. This is action. Doom has always been and always will be a fast-paced action game, and we're working on that right now. If you want realism and that crap then go play Renegade.


Lol wat. Renegade matches usually take about 15-30 minutes (an hour at most), and bases are void of automatic defense beside a limited supply of hand-laid mines. Players did the defending, and were always busy doing so. I think you misread.

Anyways, when writing that previous post, I suppose it's not TERRIBLE the way things are now as long as Bodycount is in play. The turrets themselves are incredibly fragile and can be painlocked, and a short effective range. Miniravens have a hard time hitting moving players except inside buildings. Bags and wire are often seen a mile away and can be smashed through with ease with a C4, mech, or plasma cannon. Mines are disarmable (though personally at a painfully slow rate) by the prime infiltrating class.

It all comes down to if the Utility guy is competent or not to use them right, and if there is more than one of them.

Laser rifles disabling mines faster would help this a lot. That and/or knives insta-killing mines. Mines in their numbers should only really be a threat to individual soldiers without repairguns. Why make shit harder for the only infiltration class that's also worth more than most combat classes (not to mention the total of 1200$ with C4)?


Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:40 am
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
Medicris wrote:
The turrets themselves are incredibly fragile and can be painlocked, and a short effective range. Miniravens have a hard time hitting moving players except inside buildings. Bags and wire are often seen a mile away and can be smashed through with ease with a C4, mech, or plasma cannon.

This doesn't apply inside buildings. By the time you disarm mines with a weapon that is not specialized for disarming you're dead.


Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:37 pm
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
Please for the love of god limit gun turrets, its no fun on 15 when one team makes an army of turrets on the centre rock

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Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:44 am
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Post Re: Disallow certain utility items to be built inside buildi
Again.. if we fix the economy issue, all that's left is to balance utility prices and this issue could be solved. No need for extreme stuff.


Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:53 pm
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