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Mechs: Underpowered? 
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Post Mechs: Underpowered?
Some ingame examples:

(It's kind of hard to aim precisely with 25fps.)

Look at these. Quite a lot of attacks here should have easily killed people here, but they really just shrug off flames, heavy cannon warheads, some shock cannons, and then 20 simultaneous missiles for good measure. Yes, I was playing with 190 ping because lolbritserver, but even then, aside from the Raven, legitimate hits were landed.

Also the Titan cannon sound is bugged. Fyi. Listen to it, it plays at half speed.

Video Description wrote:
I could have made this funny, but I got lazy. So have a general gameplay video!

Mechs really can't keep up with all of the changes the rest of the game's been getting. Since infantry is a million times faster and explosive-resistant classes are everywhere now, they simply don't have the damage output to really be useful in combat at all: they're so slow and unwieldy compared to the new infantry, they just can't compare. Hits that should have killed the enemy a while ago are mostly just shrugged off now.

All they're really good for now is holding M1 at buildings until six arty cannon guys run at you fearlessly because you do 10 damage to them. They have no place on the battlefield other than soak up needless damage, and whatever it can do, some form of infantry can do it better.

Name: -Hammer-


For a few weeks, we've noticed a definite decline in mech usage in all roles, and how difficult it was to even survive in one, let alone kill or attack with.

So the question is: What can we do about it? I've heard some ideas tossed here and there, like mechs having less health but more firepower and speed to keep up with the new infantry speeds like they used to be.


Last edited by atac on Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:17 am, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:46 am
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
This can also serve as a demonstration on how overused a few of the classes are. Maybe it's not the mechs' fault. You know that currently the massdriver is OP (great speed, GREAT EXPLOSION RADIUS, great damage against non-explosive armor classes) and everyone has to have an explosive armor if they want to survive against it, because every noob out there will want to use the mass driver because of its power. And then that leads to explosive classes being overused which rules the mechs out.

Mechs in general were a bit too strong IMO (well, some of them, at least). You see a raven up 100 meters? ded. Orca? ded. These explosive armors actually give you a chance to survive against something like this. It's just that EVERYONE is using the explosive armors which makes the mechs seem weak.


Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:48 am
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
This calls for LASER MECHS. Image

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Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:36 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
Yes, the laser chaingun for the Guardian :>

As of now, the Guardian is quite useless since the nukes travel pretty slowly and are limited to 2, and the SRM's are useless. The 80mm (I think it was. Was it 100?) can't OHKO, which leaves is utterly defenseless except as a meatshield. Even as a defence mech, it's too weak to do much.

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Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:04 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
The Guardian feels a bit too polarized in retrospect... it's too anti-mech, should have a little something against infantry too.


Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:21 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
Dusk wrote:
The Guardian feels a bit too polarized in retrospect... it's too anti-mech, should have a little something against infantry too.

Team mates.


Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
50mm cannon mode. Loadout would be:

80mm cannons
50mm cannons
SRM-15s
Flak guns
Nuke

Not the most ideal infantry killing weapon, but it's something and it fits with the rest of the mech.

Also, thinking about giving LRMS slightly higher power, but with a slight (Titan cannon amount) of drop. Probably feel more like artillery weapons, too. I've heard someone say "they feel like bubbles".


Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:21 am
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
If you haven't noticed the mechs go from total infantry to total anti-mech, with some of them having a good potential on base demolishing. The guardian is good for "guarding" the base (against mechs). If you want to face infantry, use an anti-infantry mech or just use the infantry, and if you need to defend yourself from infantry as the guardian, you should get your team mates to do that. Although, I agree with Medic's suggestion as its anti-infantry value is zero.


Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:41 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
Thing is, for its intended role as base defense, it's rather mediocre. The fronts of many bases are open and susceptible to packs of guys with plasma cannons, massdrivers, and gauss rifles, often with a clear line of sight to the repair pad. What use is a 3000$ defending machine if it can't even drive away a single soldier with an arty cannon? A "jack of all trades" weapon like 50mm shots could aid it in all areas (building, infantry, mechs) and help it scare off the occasional infantryman who thinks he can one-man-army the behemoth. Of course it's not nearly an optimal weapon for infantry and any other mech is a far better choice, but it's better than nothing.

I was considering giving it 6000 health to help it tank damage better and perform its anti-mech role somewhat better, though this is only an alternative before I thought of the alternate cannon modes.


Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:40 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
I am not agree. Mechs are really cool now.
And people can use mechs, in fact I've seen lots of successfull mechs rush against obe. I've seen mechs and infantery working nice together making very goods attacks.


There is lots of maps where mechs can stay in a safe, go out suddenly and kill fast in 2 o 3 seconds and back to the safe place. If you give more speed and power, infantery maybe can do 1 o 2 shoots before die... and mechs will be remains. It will be the best way to kill several players without die.
That just with 1,... imagine 3 o 4 mechs ... =S


If you give more power and speed, spam mech will appear again. Not will be necessary skills, just get a mech.
And I think Mechs and infantery must be a team, must work togetter to make a good attack.
With more power and speed, you just don't need infantery ... just mechs.


Also, Doom is not mech.

=D

Regards.

PD: And If you give more power to mechs we will need more stronger buildings, especially the obelisk.

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Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:34 am
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
Hm, perhaps the obelisk should have a "shields turn on" button somewhere. Which would make it use it's powahh to make a forcefield or something.

One that would absorb like, 50-60% of all damage?

It should then promptly drop that pesky idea about "firing", but that's a tradeoff.

And yes, it should totally be operable by enemy stealths. Albeit it should probably take a little bit while the obelisk hesitates to fire.


Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:12 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
I'd say mechs are pretty underpowered, considering I can basically one-man-army most mechs that don't have machineguns. And some way to prevent the obelisk from firing would be pretty neat, especially a shield that stops mechs.

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Code:
[20:31] <Synert> so yeah thanks dusk
[20:31] <Synert> for accidentally setting him on my forums
[20:31] <Medicris> dying
[20:32] <Eric> we figure that's proper retribution for all the shit you do in-game :v
[20:32] <Dusk> hahaha
[20:33] <Eric> truly a fate worse than banning


Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:18 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
I don't think you can really say that all of the mechs are underpowered, because some of them are quite fine the way they are. Okay, the Orca is just fine the way it is, some might even say that it is overpowered for the cost. The other mechs... not so much.

The Raven is fine the way it is imo, its fast and has the light cannons which are versatile and effective against both infantry and early game mechs.

The Wolverine is also fine. It has a low cost and its minigun makes it useful for base defense against early-mid game infantry rushes and can be used for mid-field map control on more restricted maps. The rockets are good against enemy mechs if they happen to get close or if their pilots are terrible at dodging, but otherwise aren't very effective. The pulse cannon is a great backup weapon.

Madcats don't seem to be particularly useful in the current build, especially when you consider their cost. The replacement of the dual miniguns with the dual shock rifles has made them suceptible to infantry(see below), and they lack the weapons to effectively fight against other mechs (like the Wolverine, all the Madcat has are its rockets). The shock cannon is useful as a suppression weapon and deals a decent amount of damage to everything. The dual shock rifles are great against infantry assuming they charge within the short range with which they work. When you couple this with the fact that Madcats are huge and slow, they become easy targets for enemy anti-mech infantry. At least you could suppress infantry at a reasonable distance with the old miniguns. Assuming that the Madcat is supposed to be a versatile support mech (which is what it has seemed to be during the time I have played AoW2), it is versatile, but not terribly effective at it. When I've played lately, I've seen very few Madcats being fielded.

Titans do a fantastic job of countering other mechs and dealing damage to buildings. The only problem with them is that you can do the same with the new infantry while spending less, being faster, and being harder to hit. The Titan still makes appearances occasionally, normally when Obelisk rushing, or to counter enemy heavy mechs.

The Guardian does a fine job at defending bases (as the name implies) from mechs, and is somewhat effective against infantry when they are inside the base and not in buildings, but it is still fodder to enemies who are outside of the base(or a moderate distance away), as the repair pads and front of the bases are normally open to enemy anti-mech infantry who will gladly fill the air with Guardian shredding projectiles and beams.

As for the Orca... yes its powerful and cheap, but it is also very fragile. A lot of people complain that they are too spammable early game. There is indeed a problem here, but it isn't on the orca's end, its on the poor sods trying to fight it using SMG's and other anti-infantry weapons early game. With the armor and damage upgrade and a Gauss Gunner class, you can send an Orca back to base very easily. Keep in mind that the Gauss Gunner AND upgrade combined cost less than an Orca (and that is ignoring the fact that most mech pilots are medics).



Possible ways to fix some apparent problems:
- Make the Titan more effective against mechs? I'm not even sure about this one as the person making the suggestion, they are quite effective against mechs already.
- Make the Madcat harder to hit and/or give it a different infantry suppression weapon. I know everyone likes that sprite, but it's just so damn huge that you can't miss it.
- Would it be possible to give the Guardian some kind of passive buff only when it is within its own base? like a personal shield, or greater damage resistance, or greater regen, or something.
- A weapon that is more useful against infantry than the current loadout would also help the Guardian.


On rockets: I think they are fine being building/mech killers. Making them gibb infantry would make them a bit OP imo.


Sat May 12, 2012 12:22 am
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
Make the Guardian's SRM, MRM? They fall short in less than a second, which makes them pretty useless. They look cool though.

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Sat May 12, 2012 1:29 am
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
lawa001 wrote:
They look cool though.

true


Sat May 12, 2012 1:41 am
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
Mech are so good now.
Is better than ever. I think it must keep on this way or will take the risk back to OP mechs.


Thu May 17, 2012 6:11 pm
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
I know this is an old post, but it's not like there's much activity in this section anyway.

I'm going to throw my two cents in here and agree that mechs are currently underpowered. The thing is, they're good in mech v mech and building assault (for the most part), but mech v infantry is horribly unbalanced in favour of infantry.

Mech weapons, sans the rare few that have the hitscan machine guns, suffer from a sad case of slow projectile versus fast-moving infantry target, and trying to play the "lead the projectile just right" game while a considerably faster target is capable of shredding what's supposed to be a heavy metal monster of a machine with cheaply-available classes is far from fun. (Not to mention projectiles' tendency to... not work if lag/ping is bad enough at any given moment....)


Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:47 am
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Post Re: Mechs: Underpowered?
Mechs are just useless infantry victims.

And if I've to kill some mechs I'll be an infantry soldier too.

I dont see any reason anymore to buy a mech.

Infantry has much more power.


Wed May 29, 2013 12:44 am
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