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Few things to make a gameplay less.. chaotic. 
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Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:48 pm
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Post Few things to make a gameplay less.. chaotic.
First of all, money are earned too easy. Like, few crystals and u can buy a suicider or a mech. So folks just mindlessly do mech/suicide raids. No fun really. Esp. for newbies. Some classes are really highly underpriced.... IMHO, stealth should be among the most expensive classes. Mech is also not something to be taken for granted. Same goes for plasma cannon and ion bomb. Ppl would actually act more sane if there was kinda exp. requirements for each class. Like you can't buy a mech or commando until you're an officer or so. Exp. system is "weird" too. Like gaining xp every 5-10 sec for nothing is absolute nonsense. XP stays if dead is even more bs. Not cool. Really, not at all. Considering weapongry.. As I said, itis kinda not right, that acquiring weapons requires only money. IMHO, it would be more sane if there was a rank factor. Like you can't buy a minigun, if your don't have specific rank and MG weapon skill. Along with that should come weapon type feature (SG class, MG class, rifle class), which will also take part in acquiring weapongry. For exmpl, if you're a skilled minigunner but no rifle skill, than you can't go for a sniper rifle. Now.. not many ppl give a damn to being a utility class. Surely, being a utility seems boring, but a good util can be a key to victory. Next, we have all these c4s, nukes and proxies. IMO, it's ridiculous that everyone can use explosives, esp. throwing c4's on the run. My take, is that explosives should be oped only by demolitioner (incl. disarming). And the last one, I guess, is the flying explosive chainsaw )Ok, it's a good joke, but it's not cool to be killed by this joke. The mod tends to be some serious gameplay, not a joke festival.
Well, that's about it, I guess. At least for now. IMO these changes will make the gameplay less chaotic and more interesting, but the decision stands by the author :)


Mon May 06, 2013 4:12 am
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Post Re: Few things to make a gameplay less.. chaotic.
Painkiller wrote:
First of all, money are earned too easy. Like, few crystals and u can buy a suicider or a mech.
Currently being discussed in other parts of the forum. Faster money flow = faster games = less SD nonsense.

Painkiller wrote:
So folks just mindlessly do mech/suicide raids. No fun really. Esp. for newbies.
Depends on the map. If you let a continuous stream of no-armor guys trample your base, your team fails.

Painkiller wrote:
Some classes are really highly underpriced.... IMHO, stealth should be among the most expensive classes.
-2 Armor means they die if they trip. Why should it be among the most expensive (Timecop/Suicide Bomber)? The stealth lacks fire power, and is outgunned by every other class (most, anyways). The suicide bomber can OHKO mechs, and the Timecop can seriously buff the team.

Painkiller wrote:
Mech is also not something to be taken for granted. Same goes for plasma cannon and ion bomb
Provided a fuckin' plasma blast in your base raises no alarms...something's wrong. Mechs aren't taken for granted. They're only used when a team is well off with their credit income to the point of being able to fund these beasts. Nukes and beacons are extremely loud, and can be heard from ANYWHERE in the base. They're skyhigh particle trails give off their locations too.

Painkiller wrote:
Ppl would actually act more sane if there was kinda exp. requirements for each class. Like you can't buy a mech or commando until you're an officer or so.
This would only further increase the gap between experienced players and newcomers. With this mechanism, it would discourage players from joining midway, and early harvesters would rampage the fields.

Painkiller wrote:
Exp. system is "weird" too. Like gaining xp every 5-10 sec for nothing is absolute nonsense. XP stays if dead is even more bs.
Bug where 10xp is "given" (You don't actually get anything) pre C4 explosion. This has long been patched, but is the new beta ever played? Nope.

Painkiller wrote:
Not cool. Really, not at all.
Ok.

Painkiller wrote:
Considering weapongry.. As I said, itis kinda not right, that acquiring weapons requires only money.
How else would you acquire weapons? Crates? Paying with your soul?

Painkiller wrote:
IMHO, it would be more sane if there was a rank factor. Like you can't buy a minigun, if your don't have specific rank and MG weapon skill. Along with that should come weapon type feature (SG class, MG class, rifle class), which will also take part in acquiring weapongry. For exmpl, if you're a skilled minigunner but no rifle skill, than you can't go for a sniper rifle.
AOW is >>>>>NOT<<<<< an RPG. What if a close combat SSG'er wants to take it back and snipe? Would they have to work from square one from Rifleman? BS.

Painkiller wrote:
Now.. not many ppl give a damn to being a utility class. Surely, being a utility seems boring, but a good util can be a key to victory.
Eh, I disagree. There are some dedicated util's.

Painkiller wrote:
Next, we have all these c4s, nukes and proxies. IMO, it's ridiculous that everyone can use explosives, esp. throwing c4's on the run. My take, is that explosives should be oped only by demolitioner (incl. disarming).
And you want to price UP the stealth? Make them useless by nerfing their offensive capabilities AND make them super expensive? Dude, read what you write. Demoman vs technician? If I want to disarm, I'd have to fuckin' resign and grab demoman and vice versa? The demoman does it better/faster for a reason.

Painkiller wrote:
And the last one, I guess, is the flying explosive chainsaw )Ok, it's a good joke, but it's not cool to be killed by this joke.
Learn to dodge. If you get your ass served to you by a flying black chainsaw, you deserve to be killed. "OH STEALTH" GEE WHAT ELSE ARE STEALTHS FOR.

Painkiller wrote:
The mod tends to be some serious gameplay, not a joke festival. Well, that's about it, I guess. At least for now. IMO these changes will make the gameplay less chaotic and more interesting, but the decision stands by the author :)
Your definition of joke and serious gameplay seem to be flipped, bro.

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Tue May 07, 2013 5:47 am
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Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:48 pm
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Post Few things to make a gameplay less.. chaotic.
Quote:
Faster money flow = faster games = less SD nonsense.

Lol, I thought the main reason for playing is enjoyable gaming process, not a quick finish. It's like quantity vs quality or sorta. :|
Quote:
If you let a continuous stream of no-armor guys trample your base, your team fails.

You know, when the server is crowded with ppl, and they come in quantities to your base, and you see nothing on the screen, but fog of exlosions, no matter how heavy the base is fortified, it won't help.
Quote:
-2 Armor means they die if they trip. Why should it be among the most expensive (Timecop/Suicide Bomber)? The stealth lacks fire power, and is outgunned by every other class (most, anyways).

That's a tradeoff for stealth tech. Stealth unit is not an infantry, it's meant for spying and infiltration, not for combat. BTW, experienced player can outgun any other weapon class. In real world stealth tech is amongs the most expensive also :)
Quote:
Mechs aren't taken for granted. They're only used when a team is well off with their credit income to the point of being able to fund these beasts.
Right, and the money are earned in no time + donations. You can afford a mech at the very start.
Quote:
With this mechanism, it would discourage players from joining midway, and early harvesters would rampage the fields.

As far as I know, any basic infantry class can deal any advanced one with no problem. This is a question of the player's skill.
Quote:
..but is the new beta ever played?Nope
The new beta is not played, cuz of often crashes.
Quote:
How else would you acquire weapons? Crates? Paying with your soul?
Rank + class + weapon xp + money.
Quote:
AOW is >>>>>NOT<<<<< an RPG
Nope. Its Action RTS.
Quote:
What if a close combat SSG'er wants to take it back and snipe?
Nope. Sniping is for snipers. He will have to find himself a sniper companion. Knight is knight, bishop is bishop. It's a teamgame, not a one man's campaign.
Quote:
If I want to disarm, I'd have to fuckin' resign and grab demoman and vice versa?
It's a teamgame. Means the victory is gained by a team effort. Communicate, cooperate.
Quote:
If you get your ass served to you by a flying black chainsaw..
Well, why not make a chaisaw launcher then? Or handheld ship cannon (Serious Sam)? It's not that I complain on being killed with a flying chaisaw, it's just that flying chainsaw is ridiculous phenomenon. Just try to throw a chainsaw for more than 5 meters :D

I didn't say the mod is bs, I've made some suggestions, which I THINK can improve some features thus making the gaming process more enjoyable. I don't insist on anything. Modder is the god here. Discussing and arguing won't help much, cuz the perfection is gained only
by trials and errors.


Tue May 07, 2013 8:04 am
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Post Re: Few things to make a gameplay less.. chaotic.
Painkiller wrote:
Lol, I thought the main reason for playing is enjoyable gaming process, not a quick finish. It's like quantity vs quality or sorta.
Well, there's a line between rushed, unecessary games and long drags. The 60 minute SD's were shortened appropriately to get the games going faster, and a reduced money flow, in my opinion, would only go against that.

Painkiller wrote:
You know, when the server is crowded with ppl, and they come in quantities to your base, and you see nothing on the screen, but fog of exlosions, no matter how heavy the base is fortified, it won't help.
This is completely not true. Full 32 players can still enjoy a fully functional game. The bases' defenses do not correlate with explosions and fog. (Sure, there'd be more, but not to the point of complete battlefield blindness). Besides, this logic only holds true for smaller maps like 20, and only when one team has amassed enough money to completely wipe the other.

Painkiller wrote:
That's a tradeoff for stealth tech. Stealth unit is not an infantry, it's meant for spying and infiltration, not for combat. BTW, experienced player can outgun any other weapon class. In real world stealth tech is amongs the most expensive also
No, it is not a tradeoff to price them up by $1500. With your new ideas of "infiltration and combat" stealths would become insanely useless.

Also, you can't use player experience as an argument. By simply jamming "experience'd kill anything" OK TRUE, but with that logic, why not say that a gunman would dominate all the other classes? Why not price up the gunman?

Painkiller wrote:
Right, and the money are earned in no time + donations. You can afford a mech at the very start.
Ok fine, your limited scope and scenario are applicable. But how many mechs can that person continuously afford? If the player stays on the field long enough to earn more money, then so be it. Learn to fight against mechs. It's simple.

Painkiller wrote:
As far as I know, any basic infantry class can deal any advanced one with no problem. This is a question of the player's skill.
And immediately your arguments crumble by depending on subjective factors like "skill." If this mod becomes tailored to specific "skill" levels, there'd be no balance, right? Right.

Painkiller wrote:
The new beta is not played, cuz of often crashes.

That's personal opinion, to an extent. It has never crashed for me, and I see that most players are unhappy with many of the new gameplay features. (ie, last public beta I saw populated, people where whining about wallhacking beacons)

Painkiller wrote:
Rank + class + weapon xp + money.

lawa001 wrote:
This would only further increase the gap between experienced players and newcomers. With this mechanism, it would discourage players from joining midway, and early harvesters would rampage the fields.
This would again increase the disparity between mid game/early game/end game players. Combined with specific ranks, and this "skill" you speak of, new people joining would get trashed by others.

Painkiller wrote:
Nope. Its Action RTS.
Ah well, meant this genre. Just because it's an RTS doesn't mean it needs to encompass skill trees as you so describe. You clearly don't understand the huge divergence created by forcing the player into a skill set.

Painkiller wrote:
Nope. Sniping is for snipers. He will have to find himself a sniper companion. Knight is knight, bishop is bishop. It's a teamgame, not a one man's campaign.

Wow, what an asshole. Punish the guy because he wants to play differently. Fuck him over for wanting to shoot a different gun. Fuck, I can't get my hand onto this sniper because I'm too used to a shotgun. Would supports stay supportive 100% of the time? (ie, more utils you speak of?)

Painkiller wrote:
It's a teamgame. Means the victory is gained by a team effort. Communicate, cooperate.

Some things are done faster alone. It's bs to have to expect a cooperating team comprised of willing demomen and technicians, let alone have them recognize such a dual threat. Like you said, there are explosions everywhere, right? How do you expect the teams to communicate without voicechat?

Painkiller wrote:
Well, why not make a chaisaw launcher then? Or handheld ship cannon (Serious Sam)? It's not that I complain on being killed with a flying chaisaw, it's just that flying chainsaw is ridiculous phenomenon. Just try to throw a chainsaw for more than 5 meters
Can't pull the realism card on this one, bud. It's like saying let's remove stealths because it's impossible and reduce lasers to their real length, roughly 1cm.

Painkiller wrote:
Discussing and arguing won't help much, cuz the perfection is gained only by trials and errors

So you're implying that the entire dev team crams features one after the other into a mod to the community as guinea pigs? huge amounts of discussion/debate go on before a feature makes it in (well, sometimes), and even then it can garner negative reviews.

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Wed May 08, 2013 1:23 am
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Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:48 pm
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Post Re: Few things to make a gameplay less.. chaotic.
Quote:
So you're implying that the entire dev team crams features one after the other into a mod to the community as guinea pigs?

Well.. yeah! That's actually how the job done. Just do it. (Nike)


Wed May 08, 2013 3:52 am
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Post Re: Few things to make a gameplay less.. chaotic.
At this point, idk who's even on the dev team anymore.

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Wed May 08, 2013 5:40 am
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Post Re: Few things to make a gameplay less.. chaotic.
Economy is a major deciding factor on outcome of game. However as frags and stuff are visibly displayed, which team leads in economy is not.

You can check early researching and points to see how much refining goes on for the other team. For example if a player are low on frags but are still scoring points he's refining. And if the other team have had a mini for some time whilst you dont they will have a big advantage.

But this is of course not immediately apparent for inexperienced/unknowing players. So something to make this more visible would be in place, if you'd want to make the game flow easier to understand.


Wed May 08, 2013 6:42 am
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