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Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again) 
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 10:29 pm
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Post Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Well, better version now. It is same thing as before, if you spawn turret using utility gun, it will give kills to you.
This works with any turret, projectile or hitscan.
It uses only decorate code, there is no any ACS code needed.

How does it work?
Do you know Hexen? If yes, do you know Minotaur doll? (Dark Servant) If yes, do you know that if you summon your Minotaur, you will get score if he kills? That's it, there is not any projectile killing hack used, every missile shoot from turret is owned by turret, that means it can hit you.
There is only small hack used, Minotaur use +SUMMONEDMONSTER, to get +SUMMONEDMONSTER work, your monster (in this case turret) must store player pointer in tracer field - very simple:
- when utility has to spawn turret, it shoots invisible and fast projectile (Target field: Shooting Player; Tracer Field: Empty)
- this projectile loose it's +MISSILE flag, it is not considered to be projectile anymore (Target and Tracer fields unchanged)
- this projectile shoots real turret as projectile using A_CustomMissile, real turret has +MISSILE and +SEEKERMISSILE
- real turret is created as seeking missile (Target field: invisible projectile; Tracer field: Shooting Player)
- as soon as possible, real turret looses it's +MISSILE flag and A_ClearTarget is called (Target field: empty; Tracer field: Shooting Player)
- done ... you have turret with correct tracer field and +SUMMONEDMONSTER flag

What should not be missed:
- your turret can kill you and your team mates - in your name = sucide or teamkill (can be fixed with custom damage types)
- this turret can damage buildings, because it kills as player, then ACS activator is player, not turret (again custom damage types)

What is enhanced from previous version:
- uses native ZDoom code, for minotaur
- works on hitscan turrets
- missiles are not yours and don't fly trough you
- turrets don't need +GHOST anymore
- if player leaves, turret will kill in team name and never as different player (there might be chance if another player gets same pointer as previous, but that is just theory, maybe there is not even chance to get same pointer)

Example contains only 2 turrets, gun turret and LRM turret, but idea is same for all existing turrets.
Simply load decorate.lmp after both AOW2 archives and it should work.
In game summon "Utility_Spawn_GunTurretRed" or "Utility_Spawn_GunTurretBlue" or "Utility_Spawn_MissileTurretRed" or "Utility_Spawn_MissileTurretBlue", depending on your team.


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Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:54 pm
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:34 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Never thought about using the Dark Servant as basis for this.. but there's again the problem that people would be exploiting this by destroying own turrets and building their own to get the frags. :/


Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:13 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
But it is a VERY good idea, and hell, I hope this gets implemented.

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Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:41 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Kirb wrote:
But it is a VERY good idea, and hell, I hope this gets implemented.

Has Kirb read this? Definitely this topic may need a brief overview before considering this.

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Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:02 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
I don't think that this is too good. Yes, it might promote use of utility, but then people will fight for the turrets. I'm more of a no, unless we price up the turrets some more.

~~Kamikaze

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Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:06 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
It might be possible to disable team damage to turrets and give utility guy some way to undo (maybe with half refund) misplaced turret. Undo is not hard, i have 4 level item spawn undo in my kgBuild.


Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:10 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Ah, I hadn't read that, so this is prolly a duplicate, sorry

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Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:18 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Not so much as a duplicate but worth reading over if you haven't before. It pertains to this sure, but reasons for and against.

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Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:20 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
I oppose this. It'll just end up as HURRHURR MAH TURRET GOT U. Plus, people will just go Utility, build their turrets, and destroy others' for the sake of frags so that at the end of the game when they have 127 frags they'll be like HAY GUISE ARNT I AWESHUM?

The turrets are for the defense of the base and to protect the team, not as a tool to rack up frags with. At any rate, it'll just encourage infighting among the teammates and frustrate the other team.

So yeah, no. Sorry. I really appreciate the effort you put into helping, though. Thanks.


Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:31 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
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and destroy others' for the sake of frags

This is what I am afraid of. It would not be a problem if games continued exactly the way they do these days, the utility would finally get some credit that he deserves, but this is the icky part. It probably could be fixed by using the same damage types as the global caches and buildings, though, but I am sure there will be other ways to exploit it and people will find them.

However, with the effort put into this, and with the obvious usefulness of this, I am definitely not going to close this outright - I think this at the very least deserves further consideration.

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Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:13 am
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Turned out that with the recent master/minion upgrade in 98D makes turrets award frags to their masters. So Skulltag implemented this for us... now - is this a good thing or not?


Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
I like it.

Most frags you get with Mechs or Infantry, not by turrets.

I doubt people will get 100+ frags just with turrets.


Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:42 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
This is bad...you don't even need to put yourself in harm's way for more than a moment to accomplish a full game's worth of camping!


Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
heh, imo any turret kills should not give you exp and cash.


Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:32 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
It might encourage utility guys to play for once, though. Seriously, for the last 25~ games, barely anyone on my team ever wants to util.


Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:50 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
I don't mind the changes.

I don't see alot of people die often against turrets since assuming that most players know how to deal with turrets. Also, if your turrets kill your teammate I think you lose XP so it is sorta balanced out. Also, be lucky proxies dont grant XP to the one who planted them.


Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:17 am
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
It fucks around with the exp system even more. I would rather it give only funds.

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Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:48 am
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Sorry to bump this thread, but I'd like to add my opinion here: If turrets would give frags to their owners, there would be 3 ways of getting commando:
1 - Go out, take a lot of effort killing people, including threats to your base. The way that aquires work the most
2 - Go harvest tiberium, be bored while doing it until you reach the 20th minute where either yours or the enemy's base is fucked up on smaller games
3 - o hai il just kil team turts end place meh own and free frags free xp xd :p :d :) c: :9 wail dat hapens, il spam sum unbalancd wepz and winzzzz

I am personally against getting XP by refining tiberium too, because you don't put any effort to it. While killing, you need to train, be skilled, [not yet available in this playerbase]make battle field tactics. But just harvesting is boring as hell, so I wouldn't spend the whole game harvesting so I could get high rank. But, I could harvest until I get to like 2 ranks more than average offense guy has and then buy weapons, and while having armor and fucktons of HP comparing to others including damage, reach commando rank by killing them with ease. So yea, harvesting tib crystals does have a side effect but if you plan it out then it's easy game for you, where as you don't put as much effort as you do when starting to kill from the start.

To all that, making deploy stuff give you the credit for their work is very cheap, cowardish and doesn't aquire effort at all. When turrets get killed, enemy is on low hp, kill him and rebuild the turret. And that would also cause people teamkilling turrets so they place the same ones there just because they would get the credit.

I am strongly against this, even though I love the way kgsws made this.


Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:07 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Actually Skulltag already implemented this for us with 98D. And I've yet to see turret teamkilling happening.


Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:37 pm
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Post Re: Any turret + kills (yes, i did it again)
Konda: Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaate. Ever since 98D, the turrets gave frags to their owners anyways.


Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:51 pm
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